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Objects are like people. And I speak English, and I have dollars in my pockets. So I go out and hail a taxicab and tell the driver to take me to this place in San Francisco. I go get your clothes laundered, I jump back in the cab, I get back here. You have no idea how I did that. You have no knowledge of the laundry place. Yet I knew how to do all of that. All that complexity was hidden inside of me, and we were able to interact at a very high level of abstraction.
They encapsulate complexity, and the interfaces to that complexity are high level. You brought up Microsoft earlier. How do you feel about the fact that Bill Gates has essentially achieved dominance in the software industry with what amounts to your vision of how personal computers should work?
If you say, well, how do you feel about Bill Gates getting rich off some of the ideas that we had … well, you know, the goal is not to be the richest man in the cemetery.
But they got quite a bit more sophisticated and started to innovate — look at automobiles, they certainly innovated quite a bit there. And I become very concerned, because I see Microsoft competing very fiercely and putting a lot of companies out of business — some deservedly so and others not deservedly so.
And I see a lot of innovation leaving this industry. What I believe very strongly is that the industry absolutely needs an alternative to Microsoft.
And it needs an alternative to Microsoft in the applications area — which I hope will be Lotus. And we also need an alternative to Microsoft in the systems-software area. And the only hope we have for that, in my opinion, is NeXT.
Microsoft, of course, is working on their own object-oriented operating system — They were working on the Mac for 10 years, too. Their greatest liability is Windows. What exactly do you mean by that? What do you think of the federal antitrust investigation? And again, the issue is not whether they accomplished what they did within the rule book or by breaking some of the rules.
The real issue is, America is leading the world in software technology right now, and that is such a valuable asset for this country that anything that potentially threatens that leadership needs to be examined. I think the Microsoft monopoly of both sectors of the software industry — both the system and the applications software and the potential third sector that they want to monopolize, which is the consumer set-top-box sector — is going to pose the greatest threat to Americas dominance in the software industry of anything I have ever seen and could ever think of.
I personally believe that it would be in the best interest of the country to break Microsoft up into three companies — a systems-software company, an applications-software company and a consumer-software company. Hearing you talk like this makes me flash back to the old Apple days, when Apple cast itself in the role of the rebel against the establishment.
Except now, instead of IBM, the great evil is Microsoft. Do you see parallels here, too? Yeah, I do. Forget about me. I think Bill Gates is a good guy. A lot has been made of the rivalry between you two. The two golden boys of the computer revolution — I think Bill and I have very different value systems. I like Bill very much, and I certainly admire his accomplishments, but the companies we built were very different from each other.
A lot of people believe that given the stranglehold Microsoft has on the software business, in the long run, the best NeXT can hope for is that it will be a niche product.
Would I be happy if we had a 10 percent market share of the system-software business? You mentioned the Apple earlier. When you look at the company you founded now, what do you think? What about the PowerPC? It works fine. The PowerPC and the Pentium are equivalent, plus or minus 10 or 20 percent, depending on which day you measure them.
So Apple has a Pentium. Is it three or four or five times better? Will it ever be? But it beats being behind. Which was where the Motorola architecture was unfortunately being relegated. Where is this all going? The Internet is nothing new.
It has been happening for 10 years. Finally, now, the wave is cresting on the general computer user. And I love it. I think the den is far more interesting than the living room. Phone companies, cable companies and Hollywood are jumping all over each other trying to get a piece of the action.
Who do you think will be the winners and losers, say, five years down the road? And the people who are talking the loudest know the least. Who are you referring to —John Malone? Let me just say that, in general, they have no idea how difficult this is going to be and how long it is going to take. None of these guys understands computer science. How is this new communications web going to affect the way we live in the future?
You can open up any book and hear all about this kind of garbage. I want to build really good tools that I know in my gut and my heart will be valuable. Then you just stand back and get out of the way, and these things take on a life of their own. Do you still have as much faith in technology today as you did when you started out 20 years ago? Oh, sure. Explain that. Your Archive Everywhere. Each article is web-friendly : searchable, shareable, and indexable, with SEO metadata Accessible to keyboard users and screen readers.
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